Warhammer

Higher rates of fire are all parts of paintball evolving. Just because someone can shoot 20bps doesn't make them a better paintball player then someone who shoots 6-8bps. People who shoot those higher rates have a tendency to get tunnel vision on a single target which makes them very vulnerable on their flanks. So I don't really think putting lower caps on ROF is needed. So I get bonus balled from time to time it's part of the sport. Who knows I might be the one to over shoot at someone else sometime, it happens.

I think people who have a problem with the other guy's ROF should look into a different sport like badmitten or ping pong where they can feel more safe and less threatened.
__________________

I agree with koolaid on this one. I've been that guy shooting at a high rate and I've never been screamed at or gotten into a fight about over shooting. I don't just pull and hold the trigger I usually shoot maybe 3-4 shot bursts and that works just fine for me. Sometimes I do go full auto but I don't aim at just one guy and hope I cover him in paint he might get hit with maybe 4-5 balls max but usually I'm at another player by that time. I also have been that guy who gets tunnel vision and gets flanked. ouch.

And badmitten can be very dangerous. not only b/c the birdie but the rackets flying at your head lol.

Fets

To me, it isn't about the over shooting, or the ROF. I understand the other aspects of the field's decision. You have to realize, they are making money on paint sales, so when a field does this it isn't about greed it is them doing something they think will enhance the player experience at their field.

I know we all like to look tough and say, "I don't mind guys shooting fast, I can take it". But at the same time, many of the guys on here are big advocates of pump play, and to me that means they realize the fun and enjoyment that comes from slowing down the rate of fire.

This is something Ghostman and I have talked about before, how much fun we would have if we got 20 guys all shooting magazine fed markers to play. Putting everyone on equal footing with the ammo capacity, and reducing the amount of paint shot.

Obviously this idea of reducing the ROF isn't novel, there are leagues like the Tac Ten that reduce hopper capacity, and there is a huge up surge in pump play, which reduces the ROF. What this field is doing may just be the next step in that evolution, we may see more fields doing the same thing if it is successful (which I tend to think it will be).

My question though... what about the cyclone? It can reach 22 BPS easily.

__________________

8UP

the way i see it is that milsim playing is like trying to be like the military. that means hand guns, shot guns, m-16, m203, saw gun, m-60, rocket launcher, grenades. wimps are the ones that go to the field and try to be like rambo and then get lit up and didn't like it. everyone needs to think about this...... why dion't we get rid of our radios because it's unfair to the newbies or how about we get rid of all our new vests that hold all of that paint. or how about we send back all of those mods that make our gun work better and faster when the fields wont allow it. it's a fact that the fields that are going to stop the high speed guns will either change back or go out of buisness. do you guys really think that the paintball compaines are going to stop making fast guns or stop making electrinc hoppers because of a few wimps. their is no need to talk about this anymore because it will never happen. why doint we talk about real paintballers and leave the wimps out on it?

__________________

RedMonkey

I look at it like this... as experienced players hang up their gun for good, the industry as a whole will eventually fail if new people do not come into the sport.

I like the decision this field has made. They aren't banning electro hoppers from their field as a whole, but ONLY from Rec games. Rec games are the ones that are more likely to attract new players. If a new player has a horrible experience their first time out, they are less likely to come play again.

I know several people who have gone paintballing at a friends recommendation, only to get shot in the side of the head or in the back at point blank range. Granted, this can happen with a gravity fed hopper, but the point is that they had a bad experience, and they haven't played since. And, the fact is, until that happened, they were having a good time. This field is changing their policy for rec games to try to make it a more fun experience for those new players, to encourage them to come back and play again, and I commend them for it.

Let them get used to the game, and then they will grow into being accustomed to playing with and against markers with high rates of fire. Once players are hooked on the sport, these things won't be as big of a deal for them as they are when they are first timers.

If new players are discouraged from playing again from bad experiences up front, the industry will get smaller and smaller, and eventually, will become an unfavorable niche market for companies to do business.

And, if you think that is a far fetched idea, recent events support my comments. Hybrid Technologies, maker of paintball clothing, accessories, and parts, has recently closed their paintball business in favor of producing only clothing under their Contract Killer brand. Apparently, they feel selling clothing for the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) athlete and fan is a more lucrative market for them. Whether you loved them or hated them, the loss of another company in the paintball industry is not a good thing in the long run. Last I checked, there weren't too many new manufacturers jumping in the game to take their place.

The player is the consumer for these companies, and if player counts at commercial fields continue to dwindle, then it's a bleak outlook for paintball in the future. This field is trying to reverse course on this trend, so kudos to them.

RedMonkey

This is actually a false statement. Fields like Battlefront and Hell Survivors, that allow fully automatic firing and no caps on the rate of fire, are the exception rather than the rule.

Most fields will allow ramping, but not full auto, and cap the rate of fire at 15 balls per second. Chronographs sold now a days have the ability to measure the rate of fire of your marker, and if you are over 15, you don't play. Pinnacle Woods, for example, does not cap the rate of fire, but does not allow ramping or full auto... one pull, one shot, that's it.

All of the popular speedball tournament leagues today have rate of fire caps in their rules, even though they are sporting markers, boards, and hoppers that are capable of shooting more than double those capped rates of fire.

It's just not limited to speedball either... the following is taken directly from the SPPL (Scenario Paintball Players League) official rules....

Limited Rate of Fire: Generally speaking, any single paintball marker that is adjusted to fire more than fifteen (15) balls per second will be placed on the Limited Hopper Paintball Marker list. Note: many markers are capable of firing over 15bps but that does not make them illegal. This mean the SPPL does not permit them to fire over 15bps.

1. All blowback, electronically assisted blow-back/blow-forward and mechanical markers are permitted so long as they shoot under 15bps. These classes of markers are permitted to use any hopper they see fit to feed paintball's into their marker.
2. Electro-pneumatic markers that use a pneumatic solenoid: (Angels, Matrix and all variants, Shocker, Ion, Nerve, Electronic Auto Cockers, ICD Bushmasters, Freestyle's etc?) shall not be able to use a force feed hopper or any other agitated hopper that has an advertised feed rate above 15 balls per second. (Note: see Paintball Marker and Loader Rules at the end of this document for a detailed listing.)

8UP

so does that mean that we all need two guns? slow and fast

__________________

RedMonkey

No, it means you really need to know how to service and adjust your gun to adjust the rate of fire so you can play at different fields.

8UP

thats for electric guns what about mackinical....how ever you spell it!

__________________

Fets

You don't have to worry with a mech, you aren't going to be able to shoot over 5 BPS, maybe a few more if it is a really well tuned 'cocker or something.

I also wanted to add, the PSP is reducing their ROF from 15 to .... I want to say 12.5 or something. So even the pro tourny series are reducing ROF, everyone is starting to realize that it isn't the ultimate answer and there is more to the sport.

8UP, think of NASCAR - it is the perfect example. Those cars could all drive much faster than they do, but the league regulates what mods can be used on the cars. Restrictor plates and other items keep the playing field even.

Taking force feed loaders out of the equation on the paintball field is similar to restrictor plates in NASCAR.

__________________

8UP

if you guys really support this have you guys thought about our awesome sponser alot of his stuff would be taken out of the equation

__________________

Fets

What items are you referring to?

__________________

JDobbs

Not necessarily. Retailers sell what people want. If the market goes in the direction of slower ROF's then that is what manufacturors will make. If that's what is manufactured, that is what Ghostman will sell. Make sense?

__________________

8UP

just seems to me that the wimps are taking over. everything was just fine untill they started whinning. i guess if it ever happens i'll just have to open my own field for the real ballers

__________________

Fets

Actually this has been an ongoing problem within the paintball industry for several years now. It has been discussed many times at industry trade shows, meetings, in magazine, online forums, at local shops, and at the fields.

Many venues (SPPL, TACTICAL TEN, OSC) have taken steps to address the concerns by limiting hoppers.

The two largest tournament producers, NPPL & PSP both limit the ROF allowed by their rule books.

**************

I am not saying you are wrong, just seems like you might think this is something that just came up and people are making rush decisions when acting upon it.

__________________

8UP

dodn't know that it just looked like it was something that was just started. but still everyone is going towards these millitary looking markers m16, saws, m203 and if everyone wants to be like they were in the millitary then they need to act like it. the newbies need to play a game with a bunch of other newbies if their going to wine but if they were like the rest of the real ballers when we first played then their should never be this problem

__________________